Автор Тема: Prisoner Swap  (Прочитано 890 раз)

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Оффлайн Sedwards33123

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Prisoner Swap
« : Август 1, 2024, 20:22 »
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/ck7gwe808yet

I must say I was surprised to hear of this.  Biden made political hay of the exchange, saying, "Why didn't Trump do this when he was in office?"  It is reminiscent of Obama taking credit for killing Bin Laden just before the 2012 election despite having ample opportunity to do this sooner.  The killing of Bin Laden of course, was motivated by his involvement in Arab Spring and not the 9/11 attacks.  Clearly, something else was at work here and Biden is taking advantage of the situation.  What they're not reporting:  How many Russian prisoners were given in exchange for Gerskovich and Whelan and what other types of concessions were made.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowe_Bergdahl

When Bergdahl went missing, the media claimed he had been kidnapped before reporting a different story, that he had deserted.  Even this, however, was only a half-truth.  He had defected and had been providing valuable insights for years.  At a certain point, his information being stale, the Taliban decided to use him to secure the release of five of their own.  The U.S. was also keenly aware that his insights were getting Americans killed.  They talked about bringing him home as if they were trying to help him, their only motivation was to prevent him from aiding the Taliban.  They gave up five high-ranking Taliban guys just to get one person back, not because they wanted to help Bergdahl but because they didn't want him continuing to help the Taliban.  When he came home, they charged him merely with desertion and he was able to get out without prison time and eventually got the conviction overturned in a higher appellate court.

Look at Assange.  There was no question that he was a Russian asset and the American governmental contempt for him was based upon this knowledge.  The fact was, he had broken no laws in the United States and he had public sympathy which only grew with time.  They looked at the costs and benefits of continuing to hold Assange and decided it was no longer worth it.  Both Bergdahl and Assange are examples of people who did substantial damage (to the government of the U.S.) but whom U.S. bureaucracy could not suppress for long.

These sorts of exchanges are, if nothing else, a sign that diplomacy continues.  Given that Biden may have made more concessions than usual in order to boost his domestic popularity, I would have to imagine that this deal was more than fair to Russia.

Оффлайн Николай Григорьевич Зуб

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Re: Prisoner Swap
« Ответ #1 : Август 1, 2024, 20:39 »
Look at Assange.  There was no question that he was a Russian asset and the American governmental contempt for him was based upon this knowledge. Основатель WikiLeaks заключил сделку со следствием.

Есть более громкое дело.
Эдвард Сноуден смог передать СМИ около 200 тысяч секретных документов!
Однако в конце июня 2013 года Сноуден «застрял» в аэропорту «Шереметьево»: американцы заблокировали его документы и потребовали выдачи спецагента спецслужбам США. Тогда Эдвард Сноуден рискнул попросить политического убежища в России, ведь на родину возвращаться было нельзя. Необходимые документы, Москва предоставила ему уже через месяц.


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Given that Biden may have made more concessions than usual in order to boost his domestic popularity, I would have to imagine that this deal was more than fair to Russia.

Сделка обмена выгодна для обеих сторон, а вычислять кому выгоднее не правильно.

Оффлайн Дмитрий Мотовилов

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Re: Prisoner Swap
« Ответ #2 : Август 1, 2024, 20:55 »
Седого Россия не примет. Он не связан с ВПК США и не имеет подтверждённых новаций. Только мечты в воздухе.

Оффлайн Sedwards33123

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Re: Prisoner Swap
« Ответ #3 : Август 1, 2024, 22:56 »
Look at Assange.  There was no question that he was a Russian asset and the American governmental contempt for him was based upon this knowledge. Основатель WikiLeaks заключил сделку со следствием.

Есть более громкое дело.
Эдвард Сноуден смог передать СМИ около 200 тысяч секретных документов!
Однако в конце июня 2013 года Сноуден «застрял» в аэропорту «Шереметьево»: американцы заблокировали его документы и потребовали выдачи спецагента спецслужбам США. Тогда Эдвард Сноуден рискнул попросить политического убежища в России, ведь на родину возвращаться было нельзя. Необходимые документы, Москва предоставила ему уже через месяц.


Сделка обмена выгодна для обеих сторон, а вычислять кому выгоднее не правильно.

The Wikipedia page about Snowden is revisionist history written by American disinformation agents.  I was following that very closely at the time it was happening.  Snowden's intention was always to go to Russia.  He publicly stated that he was going to fly from Hong Kong to Ecuador with a connection in Havana.  The public perception of Cuba at that time was that Cuba would never hand over a criminal, but this was known by educated people to not be true.  Relations with Cuba had been warming for quite some time.  The government simply assumed that Snowden was ignorant to these warming relations (Snowden was highly worldly and knew well that Cuba would have handed him over to the Americans.) Snowden paid for a ticket on a plane headed to Ecuador but also bought a secret ticket on a completely different flight to Moscow.  A journalist notably snapped a photograph of the empty seat on the flight to Ecuador which indicated to the world that Snowden had successfully tricked the Americans once again.

What was released to the media was certainly not everything he knew, but he expertly humiliated the United States whilst privately communicating much more information.  I was so glad that he was able to bring his family over to Russia and that they did not have to remain separated for long.

There is great public relations value in someone who is a citizen in a country airing out the dirty laundry of that country's government so flagrantly and seeming to do it for no reason other than moral indignation.  After that happened, there could be no doubt that the American government was criminal and we've seen in the 11 years since the natural progression of that corruption.  Right after Snowden left, they moved from surveillance to information control and from there, to active marginalization of political enemies.

Оффлайн Николай Григорьевич Зуб

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Re: Prisoner Swap
« Ответ #4 : Август 2, 2024, 01:16 »
Snowden is revisionist history written by American disinformation agents.  I was following that very closely at the time it was happening.  Snowden's intention was always to go to Russia. 

Я тоже наблюдал, как на это реагировал Путин.

Путин работал в спец службах.
И это воспринял иначе.
Путин воспринял, что Эдварда Сноудена пытаются забросить в Россию в качестве шпиона, как наживку для того, чтобы Путин попытался его завербовать.
И что он может ложную информацию давать.
Ну и работники спец служб не любят предателей, любых.
Но Путин стал действовать не стандартно.
Он категорически запретил пытаться Сноудена вербовать и вести на эту тему разговоры.
А то, чем Сноуден занимается, нашей стране вторично.
К нему отправил известного у нас юриста для связи и решения вопросов.
Предоставил ему убежище, как борцу за гуманитарные проблемы.

Трамп говорил об Эдварде Сноудене, но выдать его невозможно из-за личной репутации Путина, а сам Эдвард Сноуден желает вернуться в США, когда с него снимут обвинения.
Так, что это к нему вопросы.
Иногда о нем есть инфо, но редко.

Оффлайн Sedwards33123

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Re: Prisoner Swap
« Ответ #5 : Август 2, 2024, 01:56 »
Я тоже наблюдал, как на это реагировал Путин.

Путин работал в спец службах.
И это воспринял иначе.
Путин воспринял, что Эдварда Сноудена пытаются забросить в Россию в качестве шпиона, как наживку для того, чтобы Путин попытался его завербовать.
И что он может ложную информацию давать.
Ну и работники спец служб не любят предателей, любых.
Но Путин стал действовать не стандартно.
Он категорически запретил пытаться Сноудена вербовать и вести на эту тему разговоры.
А то, чем Сноуден занимается, нашей стране вторично.
К нему отправил известного у нас юриста для связи и решения вопросов.
Предоставил ему убежище, как борцу за гуманитарные проблемы.

Трамп говорил об Эдварде Сноудене, но выдать его невозможно из-за личной репутации Путина, а сам Эдвард Сноуден желает вернуться в США, когда с него снимут обвинения.
Так, что это к нему вопросы.
Иногда о нем есть инфо, но редко.

It is understandable that defectors would not be trusted.  Sometimes, they have valuable information but obviously, everything must be taken with a large grain of salt.  I have also heard Putin speak about this and of course, he denies that Snowden has shared anything.  Let me just say this:  If I were leaving my country and I had secret information I wanted to share, I would expect to be "debriefed" by the special services in exchange for the favor of asylum.  This is true for defections between any two nations, this is universal.

I remember the story of the chess player Bobby Fischer and how the United States wanted to lock him up for playing a game of chess in Yugoslavia.  The President refused to pardon him.  Ironically, many were urging him to participate in the chess competition for reasons of patriotism.  Right after the United States finished gloating about the Fischer chess victory, they put an arrest warrant out for him.  Even the Soviets would not have punished someone for bringing glory to the country during a brief visit to play a game of chess.

Back in 1992, we had riots in the city of Los Angeles based upon negro outrage at the acquittal of corrupt police who beat a man named Rodney King to within an inch of his life for no reason.  The only reason the crime was noticed was because someone staying in a hotel which overlooked a rural stretch of freeway happened to be testing a camcorder and pointing his camcorder toward the highway because he noticed the police activity.  The police were consequently charged but acquitted despite video evidence.

There was a great deal of mayhem because of the resultant riots including $1 Billion in property damage and dozens killed.  The Los Angeles Police Department abandoned the city and shop owners were left to protect their businesses themselves.  A man named Reginald Denny was beaten and suffered permanent brain damage when two angry negroes broke into his tractor trailer when he was stopped at a red light.  The entire incident happened to be captured by an orbiting news helicopter and was seen by families across the country watching the news in their living rooms, entirely uncensored, in real-time.  A passer-by disrupted the attack and rendered aid, saving Denny's life.  A great deal of outrage surrounding the Denny incident cemented in the minds of many that the negro cannot be trusted.  Police departments began carrying semi-automatic weapons after the 1992 L.A. Riots.

Fast-forward to 2020 and we had more riots, this time in multiple cities.  We still don't have a damage estimate for these riots because they refuse to release the information, but it must have been far more than $1 Billion.  These riots saw three different "Reginald Denny"-type incidents.  The difference this time?  The rioters who beat the truck drivers claimed, after beating the truck drivers, that the truck driver attempted to "run them over with their truck."  The police believed them and charged the badly beaten drivers with crimes.  One driver spent the next year and a half fighting attempted murder charges despite being the victim of a crime.

Here's a secret:  Donald Trump had a number of secret Twitter accounts, one of which was under the name "ffe3301" where he posed as a comparatively low-ranking member of our intelligence community.  On this Twitter account, he suggested that he would not federalize the National Guard to stop the riots of 2020 because he hoped that the Democrat governors of the individual states would be blamed.  This backfired as he was showing weakness and lost credibility with his base.  Trump is not politically shrewd.

When Twitter (back when Jack Dorsey ran it) decided to ban Trump from Twitter, they also banned the secret accounts.  The media never reported about the secret accounts but Twitter would have known about them because they banned them.  When the Al-Baghadi raid was going on and Baghdadi was trapped in the tunnel, it was reported that he "blew himself and his wives up" in the tunnels.  The truth was that Army Rangers used concussive charges to collapse the tunnel with him inside.  The ffe3301 account made an allusion to "the walls caving in" at the same moment the raid was going on, a raid which was not reported on television for many more hours.